The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
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The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Hello everybody,
I'm new here, and quite new when it comes to astrology as well. About a year ago i got interested in the work of Richard Tarnas, and later also in the work of Theodor Landscheidt, who is relatively unknown.
In some of his books and articles, Landscheidt has proposed a set of 14 aspects based on the Golden Ratio. These aspects don't seem to be very popular. But nevertheless, because I liked the idea, I have simply tried to use this set, treating it as a whole (since all aspects are ultimately derived from the same Golden Ratio). In other words: i did not try to find different meanings for each of the 14 aspects.
I made an assumption which is perhaps a bit wild, but so far in my experience it does seem to work (at least a bit). I assume that in a birth chart, the total number of Golden Aspects per planet (scores can vary from 0 to 9) is somehow related to the relative strength of that planet. So for example i look at the birth chart of Duke Ellington, and i get
Sun 8
Moon 4
Merc 7
Venus 4
Mars 7
Jup 7
Sat 4
Uran 3
Nept 4
Pluto 4
Which would lead me to the assumption that Sun might be a lot stronger than Uranus in the case of Duke Ellington. Having measured the charts of 250 musicians and a control group (450 people from showbizz, science, religion etc.) i do see a few interesting patterns emerge:
 convincing correlations between the life and work of musicians and high scores for certain planets (think: Mars and Janis Joplin)
 support for Landscheidt's intuition that a possible interpretation of the Golden Aspects might be related to stability/instability (since in astronomical terms, the Golden Ratio seems to have a stabilizing function)
How these two findings might interact is unclear to me.
For now i welcome all comments, and i hope you find the Golden Aspects a little more interesting after reading this blogpost about the results of my research.
Greetings!
Anton
I'm new here, and quite new when it comes to astrology as well. About a year ago i got interested in the work of Richard Tarnas, and later also in the work of Theodor Landscheidt, who is relatively unknown.
In some of his books and articles, Landscheidt has proposed a set of 14 aspects based on the Golden Ratio. These aspects don't seem to be very popular. But nevertheless, because I liked the idea, I have simply tried to use this set, treating it as a whole (since all aspects are ultimately derived from the same Golden Ratio). In other words: i did not try to find different meanings for each of the 14 aspects.
I made an assumption which is perhaps a bit wild, but so far in my experience it does seem to work (at least a bit). I assume that in a birth chart, the total number of Golden Aspects per planet (scores can vary from 0 to 9) is somehow related to the relative strength of that planet. So for example i look at the birth chart of Duke Ellington, and i get
Sun 8
Moon 4
Merc 7
Venus 4
Mars 7
Jup 7
Sat 4
Uran 3
Nept 4
Pluto 4
Which would lead me to the assumption that Sun might be a lot stronger than Uranus in the case of Duke Ellington. Having measured the charts of 250 musicians and a control group (450 people from showbizz, science, religion etc.) i do see a few interesting patterns emerge:
 convincing correlations between the life and work of musicians and high scores for certain planets (think: Mars and Janis Joplin)
 support for Landscheidt's intuition that a possible interpretation of the Golden Aspects might be related to stability/instability (since in astronomical terms, the Golden Ratio seems to have a stabilizing function)
How these two findings might interact is unclear to me.
For now i welcome all comments, and i hope you find the Golden Aspects a little more interesting after reading this blogpost about the results of my research.
Greetings!
Anton
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Fascinating blog dubbhism ! And thanks for posting this.
Have to say that I've never heard of those aspects before and rather difficult to work out in a chart (85.00, 132.5, 68.8. 137.5, 47.5° and 34.4°  is that correct ?), so this is a whole new area for me.
Inevitably I found many sites about this including http://bourabai.kz/landscheidt/consider.htm , and http://astrosoftware.com/articles/GauqP ... Paper4.htm both of which are rather mindboggling to a neophyte such as I. And Noel Tyl says of this: "My understanding of the golden section measurement in nature, including any stamp in the solar system and beyond, is that it somehow resonates with an overall creative energy force (call it God or call it accident)...". http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php ... 650.5;wap2
Clearly I need to study the matter much more before I can reply intelligently to this, but you have certainly piqued my interest !
I'm hoping that James Strom and perhaps also Mersenne might respond with more knowledge and understanding.
Thanks again.
Admin.
Have to say that I've never heard of those aspects before and rather difficult to work out in a chart (85.00, 132.5, 68.8. 137.5, 47.5° and 34.4°  is that correct ?), so this is a whole new area for me.
Inevitably I found many sites about this including http://bourabai.kz/landscheidt/consider.htm , and http://astrosoftware.com/articles/GauqP ... Paper4.htm both of which are rather mindboggling to a neophyte such as I. And Noel Tyl says of this: "My understanding of the golden section measurement in nature, including any stamp in the solar system and beyond, is that it somehow resonates with an overall creative energy force (call it God or call it accident)...". http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php ... 650.5;wap2
Clearly I need to study the matter much more before I can reply intelligently to this, but you have certainly piqued my interest !
I'm hoping that James Strom and perhaps also Mersenne might respond with more knowledge and understanding.
Thanks again.
Admin.
He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.
Chinese proverb
Chinese proverb
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Hey Admin,
Thank you for checking it out! There certainly is a lot to digest here! I think generally speaking it's an approach based on some deep and original astronomical insights that Landscheidt had (which mainstream sunastronomers have only recently begun to explore), and a lot of the technique is rooted in the physical world (no virtual planets for example). But Landscheidt was also a bit of a mystic. Nice combination!
It definitely helps if you know a little bit about mathematics (what are irrational numbers??) and especially some of the chaosrelated subjects (Mandelbrot sets, recursiveness and so on) to appreciate what Landscheidt is all about. He also looked deeply into the concept of stability, both the astronomical stability of the solar system and stability in relation to the physical and symbolic events that happen on earth. To me personally, that seems like a very good starting point of an astrological theory. Because without this kind of stability, we wouldn't be here in the first place. So 'philosophically', it feels right to me, but that's just my intuition of course.
The link to David Cochrane's results is interesting to me in the sense that it demonstrates how big scale statistical research leads to anonimity of people who are 'hidden' somewhere in the results. I think that my less refined approach (hard manual labour, using the names of only 650 people, who's chart i could 'understand' to a certain extent) was actually the key to finding fairly strong correlations that have not yet been found by others (at least as far as i know) using more refined statistical methods and very large databases.
About the practical use of aspects: Landscheidt has published a total of 14 aspects, but two of them (the G3aspects) he later qualified as optional or something like that (he mentions slightly different sets in various articles and books)
These are the values from his book "Astrologie: Hoffnung auf eine Wissenschaft"
21,25°  34,38°  42,49°  47,51°  55,62°  68,75°  84,98°  111,25°  124,38°  132,49°  137,51°  145,62°  158,75°  174,98°
some notes:
There are 5 categories hidden in this set (and again, you can also note 90 degree angles in each category):
 aspects derived from the minor Golden Ratio: 47.51  68,75  137.51  158,75
 'octaves' derived from the minor Golden Ratio: 34,38  124,38
 aspects derived from the major Golden Ratio: 21,25  42,49  111,25  132,49
 'octaves' derived from the major Golden Ratio: 55,62  145,62
 two aspects derived from G3 (0,236) like a smaller, nested Golden Ratio: 84,98  174,98
The octaves are almost derived like midpoints (34,38 + 34,38 = 68,75).
My personal way of using these is that basically, i use all 14 of them, and in principle you can think of them as one whole. This is useful for the technique of counting the total number of Golden Aspects to determine mental (in)stability as described in my blogpost.
Furthermore, for example in chart interpretation, i look specifically at the minor aspects. Right now i'm using a trine/sextile interpretation (hypothetical, test phase) in case of a tight minor aspect (orb < 1). The basis for this is the observation that major aspects are thought to be more stable than minor aspects (according to Landscheidt).
A very simple way to think of the difference between major and minor is to look at the size of a credit card. The golden major is the long side; the minor is the short side so to speak.
Practical ease of use in working with the 14 aspects may also depend on the software you use. I'm no expert in this field, but for example, when you use ZET GEO 9 (my personal favorite) you actually have to be careful that the orbs of aspects 42,49 and 47,51 or the comparable values 132,49 and 137,51 don't overlap (maximum orb would have to be < 2.5) if you want to be able to search the database with it. On the other hand, Keplersoftware for example seems more relaxed about overlapping orbs (>2.5)
Ithink an orb of 2.5 will be safe for most software, and a good value to get results that matter.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for checking it out! There certainly is a lot to digest here! I think generally speaking it's an approach based on some deep and original astronomical insights that Landscheidt had (which mainstream sunastronomers have only recently begun to explore), and a lot of the technique is rooted in the physical world (no virtual planets for example). But Landscheidt was also a bit of a mystic. Nice combination!
It definitely helps if you know a little bit about mathematics (what are irrational numbers??) and especially some of the chaosrelated subjects (Mandelbrot sets, recursiveness and so on) to appreciate what Landscheidt is all about. He also looked deeply into the concept of stability, both the astronomical stability of the solar system and stability in relation to the physical and symbolic events that happen on earth. To me personally, that seems like a very good starting point of an astrological theory. Because without this kind of stability, we wouldn't be here in the first place. So 'philosophically', it feels right to me, but that's just my intuition of course.
The link to David Cochrane's results is interesting to me in the sense that it demonstrates how big scale statistical research leads to anonimity of people who are 'hidden' somewhere in the results. I think that my less refined approach (hard manual labour, using the names of only 650 people, who's chart i could 'understand' to a certain extent) was actually the key to finding fairly strong correlations that have not yet been found by others (at least as far as i know) using more refined statistical methods and very large databases.
About the practical use of aspects: Landscheidt has published a total of 14 aspects, but two of them (the G3aspects) he later qualified as optional or something like that (he mentions slightly different sets in various articles and books)
These are the values from his book "Astrologie: Hoffnung auf eine Wissenschaft"
21,25°  34,38°  42,49°  47,51°  55,62°  68,75°  84,98°  111,25°  124,38°  132,49°  137,51°  145,62°  158,75°  174,98°
some notes:
There are 5 categories hidden in this set (and again, you can also note 90 degree angles in each category):
 aspects derived from the minor Golden Ratio: 47.51  68,75  137.51  158,75
 'octaves' derived from the minor Golden Ratio: 34,38  124,38
 aspects derived from the major Golden Ratio: 21,25  42,49  111,25  132,49
 'octaves' derived from the major Golden Ratio: 55,62  145,62
 two aspects derived from G3 (0,236) like a smaller, nested Golden Ratio: 84,98  174,98
The octaves are almost derived like midpoints (34,38 + 34,38 = 68,75).
My personal way of using these is that basically, i use all 14 of them, and in principle you can think of them as one whole. This is useful for the technique of counting the total number of Golden Aspects to determine mental (in)stability as described in my blogpost.
Furthermore, for example in chart interpretation, i look specifically at the minor aspects. Right now i'm using a trine/sextile interpretation (hypothetical, test phase) in case of a tight minor aspect (orb < 1). The basis for this is the observation that major aspects are thought to be more stable than minor aspects (according to Landscheidt).
A very simple way to think of the difference between major and minor is to look at the size of a credit card. The golden major is the long side; the minor is the short side so to speak.
Practical ease of use in working with the 14 aspects may also depend on the software you use. I'm no expert in this field, but for example, when you use ZET GEO 9 (my personal favorite) you actually have to be careful that the orbs of aspects 42,49 and 47,51 or the comparable values 132,49 and 137,51 don't overlap (maximum orb would have to be < 2.5) if you want to be able to search the database with it. On the other hand, Keplersoftware for example seems more relaxed about overlapping orbs (>2.5)
Ithink an orb of 2.5 will be safe for most software, and a good value to get results that matter.
Hope this helps!

 Posts: 78
 Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:28 am
 Contact:
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Irrational numbers, to put it simply, are those that cannot be expressed as a fraction (the rational numbers). As an example, the Greeks were horrified to discover that the square root of two could not be represented by a/b. They kept this a secret for some time.
If the Golden Ratio works for you there is even more:
The Silver Ratio! 2.4142135623730950488… (It's the square root of two plus one).
The Bronze Ratio! 3.302775638...(The square root of thirteen plus three all divided by two).
The Iron Ratio! 4.236067978...(The square root of twenty plus four all divided by two).
The Tin Ratio! 5.192582404...(The square root of twenty nine plus five all divided by two).
The Lead Ratio! 6.162277660...(The square root of forty plus six all divided by two).
See a couple of patterns here?
If the Golden Ratio works for you there is even more:
The Silver Ratio! 2.4142135623730950488… (It's the square root of two plus one).
The Bronze Ratio! 3.302775638...(The square root of thirteen plus three all divided by two).
The Iron Ratio! 4.236067978...(The square root of twenty plus four all divided by two).
The Tin Ratio! 5.192582404...(The square root of twenty nine plus five all divided by two).
The Lead Ratio! 6.162277660...(The square root of forty plus six all divided by two).
See a couple of patterns here?

 Posts: 78
 Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:28 am
 Contact:
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
I worked out the formulas for the angles. Just in case you wanted some exact figures, and also so you can use the same sort of formula for the other ratios.
Phi=1.6180340...
 aspects derived from the minor Golden Ratio:
360/ (Phi+1)90=47.507764 degrees.
180/ (Phi+1)=68.753882 degrees.
360/ (Phi+1)=137.507764 degrees.
90+180/ (Phi+1)=158.753882 degrees.
 'octaves' derived from the minor Golden Ratio:
90/ (Phi+1)=34.376941 degrees.
90+90/ (Phi+1)=124.376941 degrees.
 aspects derived from the major Golden Ratio:
90/ (Phi*(Phi+1))=21.246118 degrees.
90/(Phi+0.5)=42.492236 degrees.
90+90/ (Phi*(Phi+1))=111.246118 degrees.
90+90/(Phi+0.5)=132.492236 degrees.
 'octaves' derived from the major Golden Ratio:
90/Phi=55.623059 degrees.
90+90/Phi=145.623059 degrees.
 two aspects derived from G3 (0,236) like a smaller, nested Golden Ratio:
180/(Phi+0.5)=84.9844719 degrees.
90+180/(Phi+0.5)=174.9844719 degrees.
Phi=1.6180340...
 aspects derived from the minor Golden Ratio:
360/ (Phi+1)90=47.507764 degrees.
180/ (Phi+1)=68.753882 degrees.
360/ (Phi+1)=137.507764 degrees.
90+180/ (Phi+1)=158.753882 degrees.
 'octaves' derived from the minor Golden Ratio:
90/ (Phi+1)=34.376941 degrees.
90+90/ (Phi+1)=124.376941 degrees.
 aspects derived from the major Golden Ratio:
90/ (Phi*(Phi+1))=21.246118 degrees.
90/(Phi+0.5)=42.492236 degrees.
90+90/ (Phi*(Phi+1))=111.246118 degrees.
90+90/(Phi+0.5)=132.492236 degrees.
 'octaves' derived from the major Golden Ratio:
90/Phi=55.623059 degrees.
90+90/Phi=145.623059 degrees.
 two aspects derived from G3 (0,236) like a smaller, nested Golden Ratio:
180/(Phi+0.5)=84.9844719 degrees.
90+180/(Phi+0.5)=174.9844719 degrees.

 Posts: 78
 Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:28 am
 Contact:
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Do you think that the Golden Ratio might particularly apply to things related to the Sun, such as Leo? Its metal is gold, after all. Perhaps the Silver Ratio would work with the Moon and Cancer, etc.
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
Hey James,
Those formulas might be very handy in excel and so on, thanx!!
To be honest, i personally don't think that the word "Gold" and it's associations are the key to the meaning of the Golden Ratio in astrology. But that's just my guess, the proof is in the predictions that actually work, or the statistics that are convincing enough.
To me, the word 'Gold' in 'Golden Ratio' basically indicates that some time long ago, a bunch of people concluded that phi is a very, very interesting number. But there are other names as well like 'Divine' ratio and so on. To me, both the words 'Gold' and 'Divine' are secondary clues.
The primary clue (the one that really convinced me anyway) is the fact that (according to Theodor Landscheidt AND a lot of mainstream astronomers) phi shows up in the celestial mechanics of our solar system in a very crucial role: it provides stability of the system itself. Now that is something very basic to me. Because without stable orbits, we wouldn't be here in the first place.
Of course the theme of 'stability' is extremely broad, it is used in politics, economics, meteorology, pretty much in every kind of system i can think of. It shows up in chaos theory, it's simply all over the place. Therefore, i expect that correlations could pop up in all kinds of places.
My own thoughts about this subject are to start by following Landscheidt's intuitions (which so far seem pretty accurate to me) and try to look for phenomana that are related to the concept of stability, without defining exactly what that means. For example, when i did my music research, i was totally surprised to find clues pointing to mental stability, but having looked at lots of charts, my impression is that this is actually a correlation that might be relatively easy to 'prove scientifically' using the proper data. Perhaps there's psychological research available, but i didn't look into that.
Right now i'm trying the Big Data approach to see what i can catch using the results of my music research, and since datamining tools have become very powerfull, cheap and easy to use, and Open Data is everywhere, i'm not going to be very picky about the kind of datasets i'll be using. Just try and see what happens is my approach right now.
greetings,
Anton
Those formulas might be very handy in excel and so on, thanx!!
To be honest, i personally don't think that the word "Gold" and it's associations are the key to the meaning of the Golden Ratio in astrology. But that's just my guess, the proof is in the predictions that actually work, or the statistics that are convincing enough.
To me, the word 'Gold' in 'Golden Ratio' basically indicates that some time long ago, a bunch of people concluded that phi is a very, very interesting number. But there are other names as well like 'Divine' ratio and so on. To me, both the words 'Gold' and 'Divine' are secondary clues.
The primary clue (the one that really convinced me anyway) is the fact that (according to Theodor Landscheidt AND a lot of mainstream astronomers) phi shows up in the celestial mechanics of our solar system in a very crucial role: it provides stability of the system itself. Now that is something very basic to me. Because without stable orbits, we wouldn't be here in the first place.
Of course the theme of 'stability' is extremely broad, it is used in politics, economics, meteorology, pretty much in every kind of system i can think of. It shows up in chaos theory, it's simply all over the place. Therefore, i expect that correlations could pop up in all kinds of places.
My own thoughts about this subject are to start by following Landscheidt's intuitions (which so far seem pretty accurate to me) and try to look for phenomana that are related to the concept of stability, without defining exactly what that means. For example, when i did my music research, i was totally surprised to find clues pointing to mental stability, but having looked at lots of charts, my impression is that this is actually a correlation that might be relatively easy to 'prove scientifically' using the proper data. Perhaps there's psychological research available, but i didn't look into that.
Right now i'm trying the Big Data approach to see what i can catch using the results of my music research, and since datamining tools have become very powerfull, cheap and easy to use, and Open Data is everywhere, i'm not going to be very picky about the kind of datasets i'll be using. Just try and see what happens is my approach right now.
greetings,
Anton
Re: The Golden Ratio, Planets and Musicians
hey dubbhism,
how is the research going?
it all seems over my head but it reminds me of a book i recently learned of/bought that explores the plethora of resonances and patterns in our solar system, from the patterns in geocentric and heliocentric orbits, to even the size of different bodies
there's a video that summarizes it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcJiRmZ9WmY
and the book is https://www.amazon.com/LittleBookCoin ... 0802713882
even the golden ratio makes an appearance here and there
the author suggests these patterns speak to the endemic nature of consciousness in the cosmos, and that the complexity of a solar system may reflect the complexity of its manifestation of life, and it uses astrological/alchemical symbols for the planets, but doesn't make a direct appeal to astrology. still an interesting resource!
how is the research going?
it all seems over my head but it reminds me of a book i recently learned of/bought that explores the plethora of resonances and patterns in our solar system, from the patterns in geocentric and heliocentric orbits, to even the size of different bodies
there's a video that summarizes it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcJiRmZ9WmY
and the book is https://www.amazon.com/LittleBookCoin ... 0802713882
even the golden ratio makes an appearance here and there
the author suggests these patterns speak to the endemic nature of consciousness in the cosmos, and that the complexity of a solar system may reflect the complexity of its manifestation of life, and it uses astrological/alchemical symbols for the planets, but doesn't make a direct appeal to astrology. still an interesting resource!
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